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	<title>Comments for VoVatia</title>
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	<description>All views expressed herein are my own, and do not reflect those of the Olympians, the Aesir, the Fairy Fellowship, or the Court of Ozma of Oz.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 06:49:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on I&#8217;m Not a Real Doctor, But They Call Me Dr. Dino by Nathan</title>
		<link>http://vovatia.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/im-not-a-real-doctor-but-they-call-me-dr-dino/#comment-5370</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 06:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vovatia.wordpress.com/?p=3866#comment-5370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read &lt;i&gt;The God Delusion&lt;/i&gt; and I didn&#039;t find it angry.  Whether that&#039;s because I agreed with much of it, I don&#039;t know.  I did, however, find that the thesis that Darwinian evolution can be used to disprove God wasn&#039;t particularly sound.  That is, I think evolution is real and God isn&#039;t, but I don&#039;t think one is the RESULT of the other.  This goes in the other direction as well, which is part of why the Creationist attempt to tear down evolution is rather ridiculous.  Still, Dawkins usually comes across as pretty likeable to me (unlike Hitchens, who could be funny at times, but also seemed to be a bit of a jerk).  While he may be promoting a humanist/materialist philosophy, I haven&#039;t seen any indication from him that he insists everyone else has to adhere to it, which tends to be part of fundamentalism.  The bit about Bible Warning Labels isn&#039;t something I&#039;m familiar with, and I can&#039;t really get the gist of it from the little bit you quoted.  I also find the statement about &quot;a power higher than themselves&quot; to be somewhat misleading; theism doesn&#039;t just say there are powers greater than us (that much is obvious; the human body is pretty darned fragile), but that at least some of these powers are conscious and sentient.  And the complaint about atheists spending &quot;an enormous amount of time researching, writing, and degrading a God they do not believe in&quot; obviously isn&#039;t going to hold a lot of water to someone like me; much of my blog is dedicated to discussing things that aren&#039;t real.  Whether the scientific community is resistant to challenges to the status quo isn&#039;t something I can really speak to, although with human nature the way it is, I wouldn&#039;t be too surprised.  I wouldn&#039;t categorize evolution as part of that, though; that&#039;s a field that&#039;s constantly changing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read <i>The God Delusion</i> and I didn&#8217;t find it angry.  Whether that&#8217;s because I agreed with much of it, I don&#8217;t know.  I did, however, find that the thesis that Darwinian evolution can be used to disprove God wasn&#8217;t particularly sound.  That is, I think evolution is real and God isn&#8217;t, but I don&#8217;t think one is the RESULT of the other.  This goes in the other direction as well, which is part of why the Creationist attempt to tear down evolution is rather ridiculous.  Still, Dawkins usually comes across as pretty likeable to me (unlike Hitchens, who could be funny at times, but also seemed to be a bit of a jerk).  While he may be promoting a humanist/materialist philosophy, I haven&#8217;t seen any indication from him that he insists everyone else has to adhere to it, which tends to be part of fundamentalism.  The bit about Bible Warning Labels isn&#8217;t something I&#8217;m familiar with, and I can&#8217;t really get the gist of it from the little bit you quoted.  I also find the statement about &#8220;a power higher than themselves&#8221; to be somewhat misleading; theism doesn&#8217;t just say there are powers greater than us (that much is obvious; the human body is pretty darned fragile), but that at least some of these powers are conscious and sentient.  And the complaint about atheists spending &#8220;an enormous amount of time researching, writing, and degrading a God they do not believe in&#8221; obviously isn&#8217;t going to hold a lot of water to someone like me; much of my blog is dedicated to discussing things that aren&#8217;t real.  Whether the scientific community is resistant to challenges to the status quo isn&#8217;t something I can really speak to, although with human nature the way it is, I wouldn&#8217;t be too surprised.  I wouldn&#8217;t categorize evolution as part of that, though; that&#8217;s a field that&#8217;s constantly changing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I&#8217;m Not a Real Doctor, But They Call Me Dr. Dino by Joe</title>
		<link>http://vovatia.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/im-not-a-real-doctor-but-they-call-me-dr-dino/#comment-5368</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 01:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vovatia.wordpress.com/?p=3866#comment-5368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I tried to give a short answer, but it turned long. I find that practically the entirety of The God Delusion is rife with erroneous statements, half-truths (or-misrepresented facts), and logic fallacies of various kinds, reflecting more the author&#039;s vitriol and bias than any kind of legitimate truth. Even by atheist&#039;s standards, Dawkins is often referred to as a bad spokesman. See, for example, http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/columnists/richard-ingrams/richard-ingrams-atheism-could-do-without-dawkins-as-its-advocate-2082606.html, or http://www.algemeiner.com/2011/09/25/dear-professor-dawkins-science-is-a-servant-of-truth-not-atheism/ Here the author is a rabbi, but he quotes from an agnostic/atheist, or http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/02/05/3683735.htm; written by a rational humanist, and finally The Friendly Atheist blog, which examines the harm that atheists inevitably bring upon themselves through campaigns and statements...

“that amount to little more than mocking religious people. Richard Dawkins, a famous biologist and atheist, is an honorary officer of a group that sells Bible Warning Labels to raise funds so it can file lawsuits... With people like Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens as two of the most well-known atheists in the Western world, it is easy to conclude that atheists have a serious disdain for all religious people (the majority of the world) rather than a mere difference in belief, think they are serious intellectuals and smarter than “childish” religious people because they reject a power higher than themselves, and spend an enormous amount of time researching, writing, and degrading a God they do not believe in. Looking in from the outside, it seems atheists are working overtime to justify their personal beliefs to a highly skeptical audience. This is not the best public relations campaign… Organized atheism only exists to promote a single belief. Religious organizations promote a single belief and an important worldview including the duty to help the poor and persecuted even if they do not share our religious belief or happen to be atheists themselves.” (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/).

What Dawkins, Hitchens and the New Atheist movement do is a serious disservice to science, which cannot be co-opted to serve an ideology. But under their lead, science has been denigrated into scientism, which is the failed philosophy of logical positivism, resurrected to bolster Darwinian materialism as a kind of proof of atheism. 

Scientism, however, negates science, which as properly defined by actual scientists, such as those in the university of Indiana (http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/unt.s.is.html), is &quot;a process by which we try to understand how the natural world works and how it came to be that way... there is no certainty in science, only degrees of probability (likelihood), and potential for change. Scientific understanding can always be challenged, and even changed, with new ways of observing, and with different interpretations. The same is true of scientific facts. New tools and techniques have resulted in new observations, sometimes forcing revision of what had been taken as fact in the past. Therefore, unlike mathematics, and contrary to popular perception, in science nothing is ever proven (in the sense of finality or certainty that the word suggests).&quot; Science has limitations. 

Scientism denigrates legitimate science because it denies and negates those facts. It doesn&#039;t allow for scientific understanding to be challenged, but turns what is currently interpreted by some (e.g., the hypothesis of macro-evolution) into unquestionable dogma; it takes the &quot;scientific method&quot; and turns it into a magical determiner of facts; it also misunderstands how the scientific method actually works, and how fallable it can be, based as it is on human observation and interpretation. 

This false-version of science has been trumpeted by its purveyors as the new authority in matters of Truth, a replacement for the ignorant religious views and institutions of old. And yet it operates the same way in that it has gatekeepers and spokespersons who dominate the discussion and silence those who would question the status quo (and this is something that can be backed up with numerous quotes from scientists in various fields who&#039;ve witnessed this firsthand). Then as now, people don&#039;t question authority figures, and accept blindly what the authority tells them is true. 

It&#039;s still fundamentalism only in a modern guise, and it&#039;s just as pernicious as religious fundamentalism. And the fact that what Dawkins and Hitchens is preaching IS a philosophy &quot;could&quot; qualify it as a kind of alternate religion (when that word is used in its broadest sense as a way of looking at life and the world around us).

Well, that turned out longer than I intended! Anyway, it&#039;s an interesting subject (when its kept from degenerating into an argument, which unfortunately, happens too often in public and online debate).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried to give a short answer, but it turned long. I find that practically the entirety of The God Delusion is rife with erroneous statements, half-truths (or-misrepresented facts), and logic fallacies of various kinds, reflecting more the author&#8217;s vitriol and bias than any kind of legitimate truth. Even by atheist&#8217;s standards, Dawkins is often referred to as a bad spokesman. See, for example, <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/columnists/richard-ingrams/richard-ingrams-atheism-could-do-without-dawkins-as-its-advocate-2082606.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/columnists/richard-ingrams/richard-ingrams-atheism-could-do-without-dawkins-as-its-advocate-2082606.html</a>, or <a href="http://www.algemeiner.com/2011/09/25/dear-professor-dawkins-science-is-a-servant-of-truth-not-atheism/" rel="nofollow">http://www.algemeiner.com/2011/09/25/dear-professor-dawkins-science-is-a-servant-of-truth-not-atheism/</a> Here the author is a rabbi, but he quotes from an agnostic/atheist, or <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/02/05/3683735.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/02/05/3683735.htm</a>; written by a rational humanist, and finally The Friendly Atheist blog, which examines the harm that atheists inevitably bring upon themselves through campaigns and statements&#8230;</p>
<p>“that amount to little more than mocking religious people. Richard Dawkins, a famous biologist and atheist, is an honorary officer of a group that sells Bible Warning Labels to raise funds so it can file lawsuits&#8230; With people like Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens as two of the most well-known atheists in the Western world, it is easy to conclude that atheists have a serious disdain for all religious people (the majority of the world) rather than a mere difference in belief, think they are serious intellectuals and smarter than “childish” religious people because they reject a power higher than themselves, and spend an enormous amount of time researching, writing, and degrading a God they do not believe in. Looking in from the outside, it seems atheists are working overtime to justify their personal beliefs to a highly skeptical audience. This is not the best public relations campaign… Organized atheism only exists to promote a single belief. Religious organizations promote a single belief and an important worldview including the duty to help the poor and persecuted even if they do not share our religious belief or happen to be atheists themselves.” (<a href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/" rel="nofollow">http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/</a>).</p>
<p>What Dawkins, Hitchens and the New Atheist movement do is a serious disservice to science, which cannot be co-opted to serve an ideology. But under their lead, science has been denigrated into scientism, which is the failed philosophy of logical positivism, resurrected to bolster Darwinian materialism as a kind of proof of atheism. </p>
<p>Scientism, however, negates science, which as properly defined by actual scientists, such as those in the university of Indiana (<a href="http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/unt.s.is.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/unt.s.is.html</a>), is &#8220;a process by which we try to understand how the natural world works and how it came to be that way&#8230; there is no certainty in science, only degrees of probability (likelihood), and potential for change. Scientific understanding can always be challenged, and even changed, with new ways of observing, and with different interpretations. The same is true of scientific facts. New tools and techniques have resulted in new observations, sometimes forcing revision of what had been taken as fact in the past. Therefore, unlike mathematics, and contrary to popular perception, in science nothing is ever proven (in the sense of finality or certainty that the word suggests).&#8221; Science has limitations. </p>
<p>Scientism denigrates legitimate science because it denies and negates those facts. It doesn&#8217;t allow for scientific understanding to be challenged, but turns what is currently interpreted by some (e.g., the hypothesis of macro-evolution) into unquestionable dogma; it takes the &#8220;scientific method&#8221; and turns it into a magical determiner of facts; it also misunderstands how the scientific method actually works, and how fallable it can be, based as it is on human observation and interpretation. </p>
<p>This false-version of science has been trumpeted by its purveyors as the new authority in matters of Truth, a replacement for the ignorant religious views and institutions of old. And yet it operates the same way in that it has gatekeepers and spokespersons who dominate the discussion and silence those who would question the status quo (and this is something that can be backed up with numerous quotes from scientists in various fields who&#8217;ve witnessed this firsthand). Then as now, people don&#8217;t question authority figures, and accept blindly what the authority tells them is true. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s still fundamentalism only in a modern guise, and it&#8217;s just as pernicious as religious fundamentalism. And the fact that what Dawkins and Hitchens is preaching IS a philosophy &#8220;could&#8221; qualify it as a kind of alternate religion (when that word is used in its broadest sense as a way of looking at life and the world around us).</p>
<p>Well, that turned out longer than I intended! Anyway, it&#8217;s an interesting subject (when its kept from degenerating into an argument, which unfortunately, happens too often in public and online debate).</p>
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		<title>Comment on I&#8217;m Not a Real Doctor, But They Call Me Dr. Dino by Nathan</title>
		<link>http://vovatia.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/im-not-a-real-doctor-but-they-call-me-dr-dino/#comment-5367</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 00:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vovatia.wordpress.com/?p=3866#comment-5367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What quackery do you feel Dawkins has promoted?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What quackery do you feel Dawkins has promoted?</p>
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		<title>Comment on My Cupp Runneth Over by rri0189</title>
		<link>http://vovatia.wordpress.com/2013/05/23/my-cupp-runneth-over/#comment-5365</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rri0189]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 11:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vovatia.wordpress.com/?p=3872#comment-5365</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[C S Lewis remarks in his autobiography that, when he was young, he was very angry with God for not existing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C S Lewis remarks in his autobiography that, when he was young, he was very angry with God for not existing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I&#8217;m Not a Real Doctor, But They Call Me Dr. Dino by Joe</title>
		<link>http://vovatia.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/im-not-a-real-doctor-but-they-call-me-dr-dino/#comment-5363</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 05:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vovatia.wordpress.com/?p=3866#comment-5363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, not to start any divisive arguments, but in my mind&#039;s eye, Dawkins and his ilk are about as quacking as they come, and their agenda is every bit as pernicious (and doomed to failure) as the religious extremists on the far right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, not to start any divisive arguments, but in my mind&#8217;s eye, Dawkins and his ilk are about as quacking as they come, and their agenda is every bit as pernicious (and doomed to failure) as the religious extremists on the far right.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I&#8217;m Not a Real Doctor, But They Call Me Dr. Dino by Nathan</title>
		<link>http://vovatia.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/im-not-a-real-doctor-but-they-call-me-dr-dino/#comment-5362</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 05:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vovatia.wordpress.com/?p=3866#comment-5362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t really think of any science quacks offhand, unless you mean people who support pseudoscience.  Not saying there aren&#039;t any, just that they don&#039;t seem to be as significant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t really think of any science quacks offhand, unless you mean people who support pseudoscience.  Not saying there aren&#8217;t any, just that they don&#8217;t seem to be as significant.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Oz in Four Parts by Nathan</title>
		<link>http://vovatia.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/oz-in-four-parts/#comment-5361</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 05:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vovatia.wordpress.com/?p=3861#comment-5361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not quite sure what the point of your comment is.  Is this something that exists, something you&#039;re making, or what?  If you&#039;re asking for my opinion on the idea, I&#039;d say it&#039;s been done.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not quite sure what the point of your comment is.  Is this something that exists, something you&#8217;re making, or what?  If you&#8217;re asking for my opinion on the idea, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s been done.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What&#8217;s in Hubbard&#8217;s Cupboard? by My Cupp Runneth Over &#124; VoVatia</title>
		<link>http://vovatia.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/whats-in-hubbards-cupboard/#comment-5360</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[My Cupp Runneth Over &#124; VoVatia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 05:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vovatia.wordpress.com/?p=1063#comment-5360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] out that Atlas Shrugged contains a perpetual motion machine and holographic projectors. I guess L. Ron Hubbard wasn&#8217;t the only one who created a science-fiction-themed cult in the twentieth century.  The [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] out that Atlas Shrugged contains a perpetual motion machine and holographic projectors. I guess L. Ron Hubbard wasn&#8217;t the only one who created a science-fiction-themed cult in the twentieth century.  The [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on I&#8217;m Not a Real Doctor, But They Call Me Dr. Dino by My Cupp Runneth Over &#124; VoVatia</title>
		<link>http://vovatia.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/im-not-a-real-doctor-but-they-call-me-dr-dino/#comment-5359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[My Cupp Runneth Over &#124; VoVatia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 05:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vovatia.wordpress.com/?p=3866#comment-5359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] looked on RationalWiki the other day for some information on Kent Hovind, and I got caught up in reading other articles on there. While I don&#8217;t know that I&#8217;m [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] looked on RationalWiki the other day for some information on Kent Hovind, and I got caught up in reading other articles on there. While I don&#8217;t know that I&#8217;m [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Oz in Four Parts by Wayne Moises</title>
		<link>http://vovatia.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/oz-in-four-parts/#comment-5358</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Moises]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 01:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vovatia.wordpress.com/?p=3861#comment-5358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Futuristic version of L.Frank Baum classic about a modern lass was raised by his relatives aunt or uncle and lives with his cousins to stay since the parents abandoned as a child and lived in the big city to become a diner waitress and a janitor and all of a sudden was taken by a spacebridge to planet OZ then landed safely in a galactic fairyland with the aid of three compatriots to fight a space witch and toppled and save the peaceful planet and Dr.OZ a wizard and aging mentor of the five heroes saved the city of Emerald a symbol of hope and unity and return safely on earth once again and returned to normal life as a liberated teenager.story by:Frank Baum derived from 1900 fantasy story. Thanks for the information about your comments in your opinion.from:Wayne]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Futuristic version of L.Frank Baum classic about a modern lass was raised by his relatives aunt or uncle and lives with his cousins to stay since the parents abandoned as a child and lived in the big city to become a diner waitress and a janitor and all of a sudden was taken by a spacebridge to planet OZ then landed safely in a galactic fairyland with the aid of three compatriots to fight a space witch and toppled and save the peaceful planet and Dr.OZ a wizard and aging mentor of the five heroes saved the city of Emerald a symbol of hope and unity and return safely on earth once again and returned to normal life as a liberated teenager.story by:Frank Baum derived from 1900 fantasy story. Thanks for the information about your comments in your opinion.from:Wayne</p>
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