And All the Science, I Don’t Understand

When my wife was flipping through radio channels recently, as she is wont to do when we’re in the car together, we heard some preacher guy making the same tired points about how science is wrong on evolution and the Big Bang. Can’t these people at least come up with some new arguments before getting on the subject? Some of the particularly obnoxious ones I hear are:

  • The world looks like it’s designed. – That’s funny, because it really doesn’t to me. I think nature is both too complex and too poorly put together to be designed. The human body can do things more amazing than any known machine, but why would an intelligent designer bother to put in tonsils and an appendix?
  • The world was created with the appearance of age. – Wait, doesn’t this kind of contradict the last one? We’re supposed to believe the world was designed because it looks like it was, but we’re NOT supposed to believe it’s billions of years old even though it looks like it is? Talk about wanting to have it both ways! Besides, why would God want to make the planet look older than it is? Is it like when an architect designs a building in an archaic style? Did the Almighty say, “Hey, Paleolithic Revival is in this year”?
  • Science is based as much in faith as religion is. – Sure, it kind of looks that way when you really haven’t done much research into either one, but when you get right down to it, deducing things based on observable evidence is kind of the opposite of faith.
  • God must exist because people have a longing for Him. – Not only is this absurd logic, but isn’t the idea of God being a loving and lovable entity fairly new anyway? A lot of the old gods, including what appears to be the earliest conception of Yahweh, were pretty mean. Sure, you could get them on your side sometimes, but I kind of get the impression that ancient cultures believed in gods not because it was a comfortable idea, but because it seemed the most likely explanation based on their limited knowledge of nature. The whole concept of the supernatural relies on knowing how nature usually works, and realizing that it isn’t through magic or conscious thought. When people came up with stories about Zeus and Thor throwing thunderbolts around, I don’t think they believed these gods were operating outside of nature, but rather that they WERE nature. Holding to Young Earth Creationism today is akin to holding onto the idea of lightning as a godly weapon after people deduced how it really worked. The main difference is that the thunderbolt fights were more entertaining.
  • You don’t know for sure. – You’re right, and any scientist worth his or her salt would admit that. That does not, however, make all explanations equally likely.

Hey, I’m not claiming to be an expert on science, but I can tell you what makes more sense to me, and it doesn’t involve a talking snake in a magic garden. That said, there are some parts of these scientific theories that I don’t quite grasp. I’ve heard, for instance, that evolution usually happens in populations rather than individuals. I guess it would pretty much have to, because otherwise you’re pretty much stuck with the incest of Genesis. Why would this be the case, though? Out of all possible mutations, why would so many living things get the same ones at around the same time? I guess that means God did it! No, seriously, there probably is a valid non-religious explanation here, but I don’t know what it is. As for the Big Bang (actually a term invented by an opponent of the theory; there presumably wouldn’t have been a bang of any size in the vacuum of space) and the existence of matter, the Creationist argument is that this matter had to come from somewhere, which means there must have been a creator. The flaw here is obvious, because that just raises the question as to where the creator came from. That’s why I kind of like the idea that there really was no beginning. That’s not to say that the Big Bang didn’t happen, just that something might have happened before that. I find the idea of a cyclical universe somewhat appealing, although I don’t know if there’s any scientific evidence for it.

Interestingly, the idea DOES appear in religion, most notably Hinduism. Other mythologies also have the death and rebirth of the world, and that includes Christianity, although Revelation says the next world will be perfect. My lack of belief in perfection is one of my problems with Christianity. Also with Marxism, come to think of it. The fact that the world is in constant flux suggests to me that this flux will continue indefinitely, not that we’re fumbling toward perfection.

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19 Responses to And All the Science, I Don’t Understand

  1. vilajunkie says:

    Evolution through a population rather than individuals doesn’t technically mean that suddenly a significant section of the population is born with blue eyes where in the last generation everyone was born with brown eyes exclusively and from then on the same number of blue-eyed people are born in every generation. It means that individuals in a population have had harmless or beneficiary mutations of different kinds regardless of how many have them that get passed on to new generations with harmless or beneficiary results so said individuals and their genes will be passed on through reproduction. Now, this doesn’t mean that ALL offspring of a mutated individual will have the same mutations, but that they’ll be carriers of the mutation if it’s a genetic/formed-in-the-womb mutation. Basically, in evolution-through-populations theories, mutations of various forms appear throughout generations with harmless or beneficiary mutations becoming more common over time through selective breeding. Otherwise there’s Lamarck’s outdated theory that an individual of a species mutates whenever it feels like it could be adaptable and somehow that mutation stays throughout the line of offspring until a new individual decides semi-consciously to mutate as an adaptation. The basic problem with this theory, which is a little more complicated than I mentioned here, is that mutations are conscious processes by individuals rather than random selection by imperfect genetic code with subconscious, instinctive pushes towards favoring certain mutations through the history of a species.

    Honestly, the whole topic can get complicated and that’s why certain branches of biology focus exclusively on biodiversity, evolutionary processes, and of course genetics.

  2. Harold DeHoff says:

    Check out Richard Dawkins’ book, The God Delusion, for LOTS more detail on some of your arguments. In particular, he demolishes the argument that a complex universe could only have been created by (a?) God, because that would mean that God is even more complex than the universe, thus making the question of creation more complex, rather than, as the simple-minded would claim, simpler. Also, how is it in particular that the supposed need for a creator proves there is only ONE god? Why couldn’t there have been, say, a committee? Or a whole pantheon. That’s certainly equally (un)likely.

    By the way, the Big Bang is supposed to have obliterated any possible evidence for a cyclical universe, so the scientific community is officially agnostic on this point.

    • Nathan says:

      I’ve actually already read “The God Delusion,” which I found more convincing.

    • vilajunkie says:

      Well, if the TV show “Futurama” is anything to go by, the universe IS cyclical and the Big Bang has happened many times and will happen again many more times. However, I’m not quite sure how a 160+ year-old scientist, a slacker who’s been cryogenically frozen for 1000 years AND his own grandpa, a morally reprehensible robot, and a six-pack of beer encased in a time machine that can only go forwards in time could be inside the universe and survive multiple endings and beginnings of the universe simultaneously.

      • Nathan says:

        Yeah, I wondered about that as well. The time machine must have had some kind of built-in protection system that allowed it to survive anything while in transit, including the end of the entire universe.

  3. Christmas Boy says:

    Everything in Gen. was created at a mature age. Adam, the animals, the plant life did not begin life as babies or seeds. That is where the implied age of the universe statement comes from.

    There has never been a recorded example of a positive mutation nor have there been any fossils that demonstrate one creature evolving into another. There is variation within species but at the end of the day they’re still the ame species. Even the finches Darwin wrote about were part of the same species and could intermate. Think of this as human ethnicity and race. We may look different but we can still interbreed because we are all human. Those finches had different beaks but they were still finches.

    There are also things in nature that defy the theory of evolution. One is the eye. If one part of an eye is missing then it doesn’t work. Therefore an eye would have been a genetic dead end rather than evolving over billions of years. The model they taught us in school was there was a light sensor that formed that gradually became an eye. This just wouldn’t have happened because a tumorous growth that did nothing would not have evolved into an eye.The flagella on single celled organisms is another thing that would never have evolved for the same reason. It’s even more complex than an eye and if one part is missing or deformed it doesn’t work. Therefore how would we get one creature that had such an adaptation through evolution let alone two? That’s the issue I’ve always had with evolving species. You’d need 2 creatures to evolve the same way in order to mate and keep the adaptations going as well as evolving into the next adaptation.

    The law of Entropy states that things wind down with age, they don’t get better. Evolution flies in the face of this.

    There has never been an explaination as how you get life from chemicals. There was a scientist who set out to prove it in the 60’s but it was later revealed his experiement was flawed.

    There are just some of the examples of flaws in evolutionary theory and why people say it takes more faith to believe in it than in a Creator. People who believe in evolution never want to address these points either. They just mock those who believe in a Creator. Even many evolutionists are starting to wake up that there must have been a Creator but now they’re blaming it on aliens. Watson & Crick are among the converts and I’m told Dawkins even says this now. My question is where did the aliens come from?

    • Nathan says:

      There has never been a recorded example of a positive mutation

      No positive mutations? What about resistance to diseases? That’s positive, right?

      nor have there been any fossils that demonstrate one creature evolving into another.

      Because that’s not how evolution works, unless you’re playing Pokémon. It’s a gradual process, and doesn’t happen within individuals.

      There is variation within species but at the end of the day they’re still the ame species.

      What about a mule?

      If one part of an eye is missing then it doesn’t work.

      Not at all, or just not as well? Isn’t an incomplete eye still an advantage over no eye at all?

      You’d need 2 creatures to evolve the same way in order to mate and keep the adaptations going as well as evolving into the next adaptation.

      Which is why I mentioned evolution happening in populations in this very post.

      The law of Entropy states that things wind down with age, they don’t get better. Evolution flies in the face of this.

      No, it doesn’t. First, entropy says nothing about getting better or worse, which are value judgments. It says that systems become less orderly. And that’s in a closed system, which the Earth is not, because it’s powered by the Sun.

      There has never been an explaination as how you get life from chemicals.

      Nor has there been an explanation as to how you get life from dirt, but the Bible still says it happened.

      There are just some of the examples of flaws in evolutionary theory and why people say it takes more faith to believe in it than in a Creator.

      That’s a flawed contrast. People don’t “believe in” evolution; they accept it as fact. It’s not like anyone thinks that, if they’re good, they’ll evolve into something better. There’s no faith involved at all.

      People who believe in evolution never want to address these points either.

      They’ve addressed them many times. The fact that you aren’t aware of or don’t accept the responses doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

      Watson & Crick are among the converts and I’m told Dawkins even says this now.

      Those people are all dead, and can’t very well convert to anything, unless they’re doing so in the afterlife. Personally, I don’t believe in an afterlife.

      My question is where did the aliens come from?

      Where did the Creator come from?

  4. Christmas Boy says:

    If resitance to disease is a mutation than there would be no life on earth at all. Diseases would have got them all before they could have mutated.

    Where is the PROOF that ANYTHING slowly becomes another creature. We should see fossils pointing to this but we don’t. Did you see the recent article that Archaeopteryx was recategorized as a full blown dinosaur and not a transition between a bird and a reptile?

    A mule is like the variations of dogs and cats. At the end of the day they’re still the same species. It’s not a new animal like going from a fish to a frog to a mouse.

    If an incomplete eye is useless how is it nothing more than a tumorous growth? It wouldn’t have been an advantage if it didn’t work at all, not even at sensing light.

    What about the flagella?

    Why would multiple creatures evolve the same way at the same time into a new species?

    Even the sun is winding down. It will take billions of years but it’s winding down. How is that not getting worse? You also cannot create order from chaos by random chance. When was the last time we’ve seen a tornado blow through a town and leave a new building in its wake rather than destruction? Why can’t I blow up a pile of parts and have a car or plane or a tank as the end result rather than a big mess? Claiming life came from chaos and somehow became orderly on its own is the same thing. Life is ven more complex that the senerios I’ve proposed.

    The human body is made up from dirt and water just as the Bible claims.

    Believing in anything is believing it is fact. I don’t know anyone of any faith who doesn’t believe their faith is fact. Evolution takes faith to believe in as fact as well. There are huge gaping leaps made in evolution that takes faith to accept and such flaws are never addressed when it’s taught.

    Show me where the issues I’ve brought up are addressed. You have not even addressed everything I brought up.

    I wasn’t aware that Dawkins was dead. We still have interviews with everyone I mentioned saying aliens are more likely than a God.

    The Creator exists outside His creation. When we humans create anything we are not part of what we create and exist outside the values within our creation. Why wouldn’t it be the same for God? Science are just the language He created the universe in. Aliens would exist within creation and therefore would require a creator to exist whereas a creator would not in the sense thatt we know it.

    You certainly do have a chip on your shoulder about Christianity. Why not take a look at some of the materials out there from the creationist P.O.V. with an OPEN mind and see where you end up as a result. There is loads of evidence that history is not as evolutionists tell us. What of all the evidence man was aware of dinosaurs? Ever hear of the thousands of sculptures found in Mexico in the early 1940’s that depict man and dinosaurs. Many species of the dinosaurs sculpted were not discovered until the 1970’s and of the ones that were known these sculptures were surprisingly accurate. Even the victorians couldn’t pput them together right and they had the bones. How did ancient man getit right without even having that? Why are these sculptures colored the same colors as ancient drawings of the same species are colored in ancient books found in the orient? Sociology tells us when more than one culture shares a story there is truth to be found in it. Why is it every culture on earth is aware of “dragons”? I had an evolutionist tell me it’s because it’s a biological memory from the mice here at the time of the dinosaurs that was bread into humans. Yeah? Well, if that’s so then why is there so much still unknown about dinosaurs? This is but one of the enigmas that doesn’t add up but there are others. What of the human skeletons and man made objects found in coal deposits that supposedly take billions of years to form? There are many reports of such findings but no one hears about them or scoffs t them because supposedly ancient history is settled. There’s a lot of compelling evidence to look at. How come the water erosion on the Sphinx dates it to being 10,000-12,000 years old? When you cover the head and paws EVERY SINGLE geologist says this thinking it’s a canyon side. However, when they are shown what it is they don’t want to get into that battle. There’s a lot to look at here and if you are truly of a scientific how about exploring the world and finding the answers ratherthan covering your senses and ignoring it because it may contradict what you believe on faith alone? That’s all I’m saying.

    • Nathan says:

      Why reply to an entry where someone admits they don’t really know a lot about science, and then get mad when they won’t answer all your scientific questions? If you really want answers, talk to a biologist. As far as what I do know, it’s true that the Sun itself will eventually burn out, but while it’s here it provides enough energy for life to exist and adapt. Just because the universe as a whole is increasing in entropy doesn’t mean there can’t be local decreases. Besides, evolution isn’t necessarily an increase in order. It seems like you’ve somehow decided that part of evolution is that living things always get better over time, and such is not the case. Really, “better” is a personal judgment anyway. If I prefer blonde girls, does that mean a brunette having a blonde daughter requires more of a decrease in entropy than if she had a brown-haired daughter?

      The human body is made up from dirt and water just as the Bible claims.

      But have you ever seen a living person constructed from dirt and water? That’s what a literal reading of the Bible says happened.

      I wasn’t aware that Dawkins was dead.

      He isn’t. I was confused and thought you were talking about Charles Darwin. That was my mistake.

      The Creator exists outside His creation.

      Which means what, exactly? If creation includes the entire universe, have we ever encountered proof that anything exists outside the universe? What I don’t understand is how people can insist the Creator is eternal, but think it’s impossible for the universe to have always existed. Why can one thing be eternal when nothing else is?

      It is interesting that dragon legends seem to have developed independently in many different cultures, and I can’t explain why. Still, it’s important to keep in mind that the fantastic creatures we now collectively call “dragons” are not all much like each other. Chinese dragons were quite different from Western dragons, which were basically snakes with legs. And neither one had much in common with any known variety of dinosaur.

      Truth be told, I’ve heard most of your arguments before, and I’ve also seen them all thoroughly debunked. I don’t see how you can accuse ME of not having an open mind when you seem to be purposely avoiding any material that contradicts what you believe. No, ancient history is NOT “settled,” but you want to think it is in order to present scholars as idiots. You make plenty of other straw man arguments as well, like all the bunk about aliens and mice with ancestral memories that are not scientific in the least.

  5. Christmas Boy says:

    Wth that reasning, why believe in something when you have not collected all the data?

    The Law of Entropy applies to all things in the universe. Evolution is the only belief that anything gets better. As for it being relative, I don’t know, if the sun burns out and all life of earth dies as a result I’d say that’s a pretty negative outcome. It’s not at all liking blondes or bruettes.

    Have you ever seen chemicals come alive? Tha’ts what evolution literally claims lhappened.

    Since you were confused, why do you think people like Dawkins are now adopting the alien creator theory? These men aren’t kooks. Personally I think it’s because they’re finding just how complex things are but wont accept that ther might just be a God out there so they gravitate to aliens as a defacto substitute for God.

    You asked how a Creator can be eternal and not knowing the arguement. I explained the belief. You write about Oz a lot and it’s the same principle that L. Frank Baum created Oz yet he was not a part of his creation. There are reasons I accept the Judeo-Christian view of Creation (I can tell you why if you’re really interested) as the most likely and we are told that Creator is eternal.

    I’m not talking about dragons from mth and legend. In Japan there is an ancient book that features realistic images of Dinosaurs, not chineese dragons. These are colored the same colors as Dinosaur sculptures found in Mexico in the 1940’s. The story of he Mexico collection is very compelling because it’s even been carbon dated.You can read more about it here if you wish:

    Why don’t we authenticate this or debunk it rather than dismiss it as being impossible. That is all I’m saying with the questions I’ve posed. I have yet to see it debunked how human skeletons and man made objects get into UNDISTURBED deposits of coal. The popular debunked theory is they must have fell into a hole and landed there but this has been thoroghly debunk as well. The fact is there are things that don’t fit in the neat package of what is accepted and if we really seek the truth we need to look at this stuff with an open mind and settle on what the truth really is.

    I didn’t avoid anything you brought up. Can you be more specefic? And I have indeed heard/seen footage of Watson & Crick and Richard Dawkins SERIOUSLY claiming life originated on earth by ALIEN contact. I have also heard on the level scientists come up with that theory of cells retaining memories that evolve into us. I don’t by either theory and I did not pull them out of my behind but I have heard people “debnk” things with these theories.

    I have studied his stuff in depth for 30 years and I’m not just one of your right wing kooks. I have looked at evidence with a scientific open mind and, as Albert Einstein once said, all of science, history, mathatics, philosophy, etc. has lead me to believe that there is a God and He is the God of the Hebrews. I just go one step further than Albert and accept Jesus Christ was/is the Messiah because the laws of probability alone is in His favor when it comes to the Messiah prophecies fitting one Man. Since it’s proven fact from the Dead Sea scrolls hat hese prophecies weren’t altered after the fact by monks in the middle ages, as debunkers once claimed, that means they said what they said 1,200-200 years before Christ. Since Christ’s contemporaries (nonBiblical sources) agree on many of these events really happening they must have happened and were not made up after the fact by monks in the middle ages as the debunkers claim. It has nothing to do with evoluton but it’s just another similar subject to consider with an open mind.

    • Nathan says:

      As I indicated in the post, not knowing something for sure doesn’t mean all explanations are equally likely. And, really, you don’t have much of an argument here, which is presumably why you keep trying to rely on misdirection. You say that “evolution literally claims” chemicals can come alive, when it actually says that living things come from other living things. Where life came from in the first place is a different matter entirely. You bring up the fact that reputable scientists have mentioned alien creators as a possibility and somehow extrapolate that into the alien explanation being a valid scientific theory. You mention these dinosaur carvings, but even if it’s true that ancient Mesoamerican and Japanese civilizations knew what dinosaurs looked like, how does that disprove evolution or prove the existence of God? Basically, you’re grasping at straws here.

      As for the prophecies Jesus fulfilled, many of them weren’t ever intended as messianic prophecies, and even the ones that were show signs of redactors trying to MAKE them fit. For instance, Matthew, Luke, and John all have totally different accounts about how Jesus could have come from Bethlehem when he’s constantly referred to as “Jesus of Nazareth.”

  6. Christmas Boy says:

    Where have I given misdirection? I have pointed you to things that don’t fit with evolutionary theory and you always have excuses for them “Well, ask a biologist”, “I’ve seen things like hat debunked, etc.” Why not try addressing what I bring up rather than resorting to personal attack.

    I’m not trying to prove to you that God exists. I’m demonstrating how evolution isn’t as rock solid and as air tight as you think. Where life came from is very much a part of evolutionary theory as it begins the whole process. Going from organic chemicals to the cell would have needed to have happened to begin the process and Darwin even makes note of this. However, he had no idea of the complexity of the cell at the time.No one did. Things actually are more complex the smaller you get, not the larger you get; the exact opposite that has been believed and taught in evolutionary theory.

    When ACCREDITED scientists are proposing the alien creator theory it has weight. Even your Atheist poster boy Richard Dawkins believes i They come to their conclusions because they are unable to answer questions through random evolution alone so it then requires a being to help it along. That’s when they settle on aliens.

    Pointing out dinosaur awareness of ancient man is most certainly not grasping at straws. It means that man must have existed with these creatures to have accurately depicted them in art. Even with the bones the vicorians put them together wrong. There has to be an answer how ancient man got these creatures anatomically correct and the carbon dating proves they weren’t forged and many of the sculptures depict dinosaurs that were not discovered until decades after, some still haven’t. There are plenty that have ben and that is where the enigma lies. Evolutionary theory says modern man is only 100,000 years old and dinosaurs were around millions of years ago. Yet someone made these sculptures. Does it mean what we are told about dinosaurs is wrong?

    Over 150 prophecies fit Jesus. The odds become impossible for even 10 to coincidently fit one Man. As for the Gospels, There are no contradictions in them. You get a different perspective from each author but all 4 accounts fit well together. He was refered to as “Jesus of Nazareth” because that’s where his family lived. When they escaped and fled to Egypt for a time why would they return to Nazareth and start refering to the Boy as “Jesus of Bethlehem”?

    It’s not just the Messiah prophecies that are compelling. The end times ones are as well. Whoever wrote this stuff is VERY specefic. It’s not like Nostrodaumus who is VERY VAGUE. The Bible describes places ny location, an associated animal, etc. It seems all those countries exist today and are against Israel. There can’t be a conspiracy there because Islam hates the Jews so why would they go along with a hoax? Their hate is genuine and pulling the whole world into this bitter family feud that has been going on for thousands of years.PBS even proved that the Muslims and Jews come from the same regional ancestor in one of their geneology shows with Prof. Skip Gates. The Bible tells us Abraham sired both groups. There are lots of things like this that he Bible tells us that have been proven in recent times.

    Why not look at things with an open mind and see what conclusions you come to. There is such hate against Christianity in you. Why is that?

    • Nathan says:

      I don’t think you really have any interest in knowing the answers to your questions, or you’d ask someone with more knowledge in the area, instead of repeatedly hassling me. Also, you could try putting in some actual thought, rather than just regurgitating Creationist talking points. Just an idea.

      • Christmas Boy says:

        Translation “I don’t have the answers but I’m too closed minded to be open to any other ideas than the empty Creatorless life I’ve carved out for myself. I can’t take it anymore. You win. Leave me alone”.

      • Nathan says:

        Yes, I’m too closed-minded to accept ancient Semitic mythology as absolute truth. That makes sense.

      • Christmas Boy says:

        But when all the facts point to Christianity and Judaism being factual truth only a fool would ignore that and not believe it.

  7. Christmas Boy says:

    “UFOs are real, burgeoning and not going away and here’s a classic example! Swamp gas? A flock of birds? Perhaps a weather balloon, refelecting the planet venus? OK… I”ll stop!

    Last night I watched a portion of History Channel’s Ancient Aliens – season three. By the way, I was asked to appear on this season and refused because I got tired of having what I said taken out of context. The wild-haired, Georgio, was at it again trying to tell us that the Extraterrestrials were repsonsible for the construction of Solomon’s temple and that they also had a hand in the Kaaba – the rock that is enclosed in Mecca, where Muslims make a Haj, or pilgrimage to. All of this is happening on our airwaves to promulgate what I call, the Alien Gospel. While I harp on this incessanlyt and some of you might grow weary of it, the bottom line is that there are a multitude of pastors who reamin in the dark regarding what I term, the Coming Great Deception which will lead to a one-world religous system that the book of Revelation tells us will be in place in the last days!

    The video link above shows a group of lights high in the sky over Mecca. Once again we see that UFOs move with impunity over the airspace of any country they choose and there’s not much anyone can do about it. Meanwhile, there is a media black out as here in America there are more important issues to discuss, like Kim Kardashians wedding!

    It’s happening folks, and shows like Ancient Aliens help promote what I believe will be a mega-paradigm shift in human consciousness. I discuss some of this is the new book, The Cosmic Chess Match as I believe this is the Luciferian end-game.

    In closing todays Post: UFO sightings continue unabated and at some point there will be a revealing. When that happens what will you do? How will it effect your world view, what you believe? What will your pastor say on Sunday morning as a restless congregation meets? What answers will he bring? All the worlds religions will fall away the day that ET is revealed. ET will tell us that they created us, our earliest civilizations, religions, and now at this critical juncture in human EVOLUTION they are back to usher us into a time of peace and prosperity. It’s coming just like the wild hair Georgia tells us it is! This new sighting in Mecca is just a harbinger of the deception that is coming!”

  8. Pingback: My Creator Is an Alien | VoVatia

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